Tysk våbenskab

[Ulrik2006]

Hej.

Jeg har været i Flensborg og faldt over et våbenskab. Har ikke købt det endnu.
Det er selvfølgelig ikke skafor blå godkendt og har heller ikke noget synligt en 1143-1 nummer, som jeg har læst er påkrævet herhjemme.
De ringede til producenten, som kun kunne henvise til den tyske norm VDMA 24992 Sicherheitsstufe A, hvilket også står på indersiden af døren. mål 1600x400x320, vægt 77 kg
Nogen der har erfaring med tyske våbenskabe? Har de samme standard som danske skafor blå og hvis ja hvordan kan man dokumentere det overfor politiet?

Håber I har lidt input.

mvh

Ulrik

[ran]

Jeg tror det er en umulig sag.
Der står direkte formuleret i loven med tilhørende cirkulærer, hvad der skal til for at et skab er godkendt.
Hvis du vil have en tysk standard lovliggjort i DK er der kun den politiske vej - dvs. gennem lovgivere og ministerium.
Politiet forholder sig nemlig kun til gældende lovgivning og cirkulærer med justitsministeren som afsender... Så du må nok forberede dig på at det tager nogle år... og så længe kan du vel ikke vente?

.....nu også ejer af en pumpehagler :-)

Favourite Quote: En humlebi ved ikke, at den ikke kan flyve......Gå ud på terrassen og vift med armene...hvis du letter må du være uvidende ;-)

[Ulrik2006]

nej det kan jeg ikke []
men underligt at det ene land har en en1143-1 kode (europæisk norm) og det andet kender ikke til det?

Har set brochurer på tyske skabe, hvor der et eller andet sted stod en3000????

ulrik

[JRexA]

Tyskerne er pr. 31/12-2003 gået over til EN normen, da denne er mindst lige så god som VDMA. Dog kan producenterne fortsat markedsføre skabe efter VDMA 24992, men man har kun producentens ord, for at skabet virkelig holder standarden...

quote:

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VDMA 24 992 will be withdrawn without replacement as of 31 December 2003

The specification VDMA 24 992 (version May 1995) which will be withdrawn without replacement as of 31 December 2003 defines terms and requirements for steel cabinets of the protection classes A and B. Steel cabinets can be given the label "Protection class A or B, respectively, in accordance with VDMA 24 992", if the re-quirements of the specification VDMA 24 992 (version May 1995) as the rules for the design and construction of these products are fulfilled. A type test, certification and external quality surveillance which are required for ECB•S certified safes in accordance with the European standard EN 1143-1 are not made. The manufactur-ers must confirm compliance with the requirements on a type plate (their own decla-ration of conformity). In order to guarantee compliance with the design and con-struction specifications according to VDMA 24 992, the VDMA has made random market surveillances. In the event of infringements, warning procedures have been opened. Nevertheless it must be assumed that there are a considerable number of steel cabinets on the market which are marked by the manufacturer with the A and B type plate, respectively, although they do not meet the requirements in accor-dance with VDMA 24 992.

Since the publication of the European draft standard prEN 14 450 Secure safe cabinets in April 2002, the specification VDMA 24 992 is no longer state of the art, and it will, therefore, be withdrawn without replacement as of 31 December 2003 by the VDMA as its editor. At the same time, the VDMA will stop to make the market surveillance. As a result, compliance with the requirements according to the design and construction specification VDMA 24 992 can only be ensured by the manufac-turer. The customer can no longer invoke the market surveillance by the VDMA, but can only trust the label of the manufacturer in order to check whether the steel cabinet meets the relevant requirements.

A confirmation whether steel cabinets which are not marked as providing protection class A and B, respectively, fulfil the relevant requirements in accordance with VDMA 24 992 of May 1995 can only be given by the manufacturer. Products of the protection classes A and B which were manufactured before May 1995 cannot be labelled with the type plate according to VDMA 24 992 (version May 1995).

Low quality of steel cabinets A and B according to VDMA 24 992

Steel cabinets B according to VDMA 24 992 and safes 0 according to EN 1143-1 cannot be compared with each other as far as security-technical aspects are con-cerned. The resistance value of B products is considerably lower than that of prod-ucts with resistance grade 0, depending on their design and construction. The rea-son mostly given is that A and B cabinets can only be manufactured with a bolt locking on the front and that the space between the outer and inner plate of products of protection class B may also be filled with heat-resistant insulating material instead of concrete. Doors of steel cabinets A and B with just one bolt can easily be opened. Lawbreakers then have access to the total interior space of the steel cabinets. The requirement with regard to heat-resistant insulating material is already complied with through the use of soft materials (e.g. insulating pads). Such designs and constructions offer only little protection against burglary.

Due to the single-wall design, the security value of steel cabinets A according to VDMA 24 992 is clearly lower than that of B products.

prEN 14 450 and EN 1143-1 – Type test, certification and external quality sur-veillance

The European sets of regulations prEN 14 450 and EN 1143-1 are rules for the de-structive type testing of secure safe cabinets S1 and S2 as well as of safes of the resistance grades 0 and I. They above all contain definitions of the attack tools and the test procedure as well as the determination of the resistance value. Due to the different testing and assessment methods, the resistance value of secure safe cabinets cannot be compared with the resistance value of safes and their security value is lower than that of these products.

Secure safe cabinets according to prEN 14 450 and safes according to EN 1143-1 are subject to the test, certification and quality assurance procedure of the European Certification Board•Security Systems (ECB•S). Since January 2002, the ECB•S has been acting as a neutral certification body of Forschungs- und Prüfge-meinschaft Geldschränke und Tresoranlagen e. V in accordance with EN 45 011 (http://www.ECB-S.de).

Secure safe cabinets according to prEN 14 450 are presently undergoing the test and certification procedure of the European Certification Board•Security Systems.

By the end of June 2003, the European Certification Board had certified a total of 141 safes of resistance grade 0 and 238 safes of resistance grade I in accordance with the European standard EN 1143-1 as a replacement of steel cabinets of pro-tection classes A and B according to VDMA 24 992. Since the launch of the ECB•S product certification in March 2002, the European Certification Board•Security Sys-tems has given more than 15,000 test labels for safes of the resistance grades 0 and I to the manufacturers.

The ECB•S test label (see annex) in the form of a metal sign is a visible quality label used by the manufacturing companies to mark their quality-assured products made in series production. This test label documents that the products have been certified by the ECB•S, that they fulfil the requirements according to the relevant European standard and have been manufactured under a certified quality system in accordance with ISO 9000 (EN ISO 9000). As a result, the ECB•S test label is of-fering the user maximum security in investment decisions and the insurance indus-try a sure basis for the calculation of risks and the resulting insurance technical grading.

Frankfurt am Main, 30 June 2003
Rg; PNO_24992_02_e

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http://www.ecb-s.com/pdf/PNO_24992_02_e_internet.doc

Glædelig Jagt fra Grønland

Jesper Rex
If you can't do it with a 30-06, it likely can't be done...(Men det ER nu kedeligt kun med en gøb....(skriver manden med 10+))

[JRexA]

Her er lidt mere om EN normerne: http://www.vdma.org/wps/portal/Home/de/B...ann_EN1143

Glædelig Jagt fra Grønland

Jesper Rex
If you can't do it with a 30-06, it likely can't be done...(Men det ER nu kedeligt kun med en gøb....(skriver manden med 10+))

[ULG]

Uanset hvad man må og ikke må,ville jeg vælge et meget tungere skab.... Undskyld,jeg ved godt at det ikke var spørgsmålet[]

Hilsen Ulrik

[GT]

Nu er det ikke bare EN1143-1!
Det er kun gruppebetegnelsen.

Klassen eller rettere sagt "graden" er glemt i indlægget!!

Skafor Klasse blå hedder EN1143-1 klasse 0
( i tyskland kaldt VdS Klasse 0)

Skafor Klasse rød hedder EN1143-1 klasse 1
( i tyskland kaldt VdS Klasse 1)

Det er ihvertfald de oplysninger jeg får fra producenter, myndigheder og sikringsfirmaer i forbindelse med mit nye værksted/firma.

/GT
Shoot low, they might be crawling !!!!"Team Headshot", HS with Precision!

[Ulrik2006]

Tak for alle svarene. Så blev jeg da i hvert fald så meget klogere[xx(][]